Queens lawmaker moves NY closer on reparations and to a messy debate

With his easy manner and bright bow ties, State Sen. James Sanders seems like a throwback to another time, a genial (if largely mythic) era when elected officials were largely civil and knew how to fold a pocket square.

Now, however, the Queens legislator appears poised to enter one of the most unsettled corners of national discourse: debate over the payment of reparations for slavery.

Sanders has been a leading force behind legislation creating a reparations commission for New York. His bill, which cleared both chambers of the Legislature in June, puts New York on the same path as California, where a state reparations task force submitted its final report to the legislature last week.

But it is an uncertain path, to say the least, with most Americans opposed to reparations. Three in 10 U.S. adults say descendants of enslaved people in the U.S. should be repaid in some way, such as given land or money, according to a 2021 Pew survey. About seven-in-10 say these descendants should not be repaid.

Sanders, whose district covers Rockaway Beach, Howard Beach, Jamaica and St. Albans, has closely followed the proceedings in California and is full of praise for that state’s leadership on the highly contentious issue.

But the lawmaker insists New York has no need to mimic California’s controversial effort, whose most eye-popping feature has been cash payments to the descendants of slaves topping seven figures. New York, Sanders says, has its own reckoning to make.

While California never legalized enslavement, New York did, only outlawing the practice in 1827. In the 18th century, New York City had the highest rate of slave ownership of any city other than Charleston, and much of the city was built by enslaved men and women. Historian say the slave trade played a major role in New York City’s economic growth.

As the New York bill notes, violence and anti-Black racism played out for generations in New York, long after the Civil War ended enslavement.

“The consequences of slavery in New York State is not an echo of the past, but can still be observed in daily life,” reads the legislation. “Systemic racism has cemented a legacy of generational poverty, and we still see today instances of voter suppression, housing discrimination, biased policing, food apartheid, and disproportionate rates of incarceration.”

However, one point is conspicuously missing from the legislation: a price tag. Under the subheading of “Fiscal Implications,” taxpayers are presented with a single word: “Undeterminable.”

Gothamist recently spoke with Sanders about his reparations bill, which has not yet been signed by Gov. Kathy Hochul. The conversation was lightly edited for clarity.

Why do you think the governor hasn’t voiced support for your bill?

Well, remember, [legislative] session just ended. The governor has 900 bills sitting on her desk, and she has until December the 31st to sign it. I'm getting indications they're taking it serious enough, and that we will be in conversation soon enough. So I feel good about the prospects.

What is this legislation meant to accomplish?

This legislation will create a commission whose duty it is to study the effects of slavery and then American apartheid, which is also known as Jim Crow – and post apartheid, mind you – on the present-day African Americans to see what effect those horrible systems had on their well-being. And what remedies, if anything, can bring them into the American dream?

What have you learned about New York history that’s surprised or unsettled you?

Well, New York didn't surprise me, but it certainly was unsettling on the level of culpability that New York had with the slave system. New York financiers helped New York purchase the slaves. New York insurers insured the slaves. New York ship makers helped send for the enslaved people, and sent their products back to market. New York also financed their products: the cotton, the tobacco and other industries that they were forced to work in.

New York plays an oversized role in the enslavement of the African people. And in the continued redlining, inability to get finances, mass incarceration… all of these things, New York has played and is playing an oversized role. And, therefore, we have the obligation to look at New York as an entity in itself.

As your bill notes, a lot of people seem unaware of New York’s history of enslavement, or the extent to which this city profited from the slave trade. Why do you think that is?

Well, there's a lot of hidden history in America. A history which, incidentally, certain governors don't want to come out. And they're going to make it even harder to find out true American history, the good and the bad. These are not things that have been taught on a regular basis in a sustained fashion. So people have the right to be ignorant, if you wish, because they were never taught. And that is part of what we have to do. We have to ensure that the real history of America is brought out to the American people.

What if anything have you learned about this process by watching the reparations debate play out in the state of California?

We have to give California its props. We really are grateful in the state of New York that California led the way, that they have done some magnificent things and they have led the way. So we are eternally grateful to them. New York, of course, is the Empire State. And our process will be what's correct for New York and not necessarily imitating the California process.

A lot of people think reparations necessarily means cash payments. Do you think there are important alternatives to cash that the public needs to be considering?

In the spectrum of reparations, there certainly are other remedies that would be useful. You could look at the health disparities and see if attacking some of those would be useful. For example, taking the lead out of people's pipes – how many people would we save? You could look at the educational disparity and see if there are things that we can do. For example, hire proper tutors, make sure that the schools throughout the state have adequate funding, etc. You could look at the housing market for disparities there. And see if there are things that we can do.

Some experts say the payment of reparations is best left to the federal government and that a state-by-state approach could sap energy from federal efforts. What’s your case for the states taking the lead?

New York state has such an oversized role in the enslavement of these people that common decency and justice demands that New York State be held accountable. I would encourage you to think of this reparations business the way one thinks of the IRS. When you pay your taxes, or if you get a refund from the IRS, you may get a federal refund. This does not take away your state refund, sir. The feds don't turn around to the state and say, ‘Oh, since you're giving them a refund, we won't give them a refund either.’ Each thing is separate and distinct, and we should think of it in that fashion.