NYPD detective said Daniel Penny didn't know Jordan Neely was dead after chokehold

The homicide detective who interviewed Daniel Penny shortly after he placed Jordan Neely in a chokehold on an uptown F train last year knew that Neely had died, he testified at Penny’s criminal trial Thursday.

But Penny, he said, did not.

Penny agreed to speak with Detective Brian McCarthy and his partner, Detective Michael Medina, at the 5th precinct in Chinatown about two hours after the subway encounter. In a recorded statement played for jurors Thursday, Penny and Medina chatted casually about both serving in the Marines. When Medina said what unit he served in, Penny smiled.

“Oh cool, machine weapons platoon,” Penny said. “Nice man.”

After that, Penny waived his right to remain silent. He said he understood that his words could be used against him in a court of law. He also said he understood he had a right to consult an attorney before speaking with police. He agreed to answer questions right then anyway, without an attorney.

The recorded statement offered the clearest picture yet of Penny’s experience on the train that day — and his thought process as he decided to put Neely in a chokehold and continue to restrain him for several minutes.

Penny is now standing trial in Manhattan on manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide charges in Neely’s death. His defense attorneys have said he didn’t mean to kill Neely, and that he was acting to protect himself and other subway passengers. Prosecutors say Penny acted recklessly and disregarded the potential danger of holding Neely in a chokehold for as long as he did.

In court Thursday, McCarthy told jurors that prosecutors were secretly watching Penny’s precinct interview on the other side of a mirror., At one point, McCarthy said, the detectives left the room to discuss what to ask next. Prosecutors were part of that discussion, he said during cross examination.

“I’m not trying to kill the guy,” Penny said at the precinct. “I’m just trying to de-escalate the situation.”

Penny swiveled from side to side in a rolling chair as he spoke with the detectives in the small, blue interview room at the precinct. He stood up to demonstrate the chokehold on one of the detectives. And for about 30 minutes, he walked the detectives through what had just happened, from his point of view.

Penny said he was on his way to the gym after leaving class at City Tech from the Jay Street-MetroTech station in Brooklyn. At the 2nd Avenue stop, he said, a man walked on, “whipped his jacket off” and started to yell.

Penny told the detectives that Neely said: “I’m gonna kill everybody. You know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna — I could go to prison forever. I don’t care.”

Penny said Neely was “talking gibberish” and demanding something, maybe Sprite or ginger ale.

“These guys are pushing people in front of trains and stuff,” Penny said, likely referring to recent incidents of people with serious mental illness shoving strangers onto the subway tracks.

Penny said he’d been on his phone, not paying attention to Neely at first.

“He was just a crackhead, you know what I mean,” he said.

But when Penny started to hear Neely making threats and getting in people’s faces, he said, he handed the person next to him his phone, grabbed Neely from behind and took him to the floor.

“'Cause he was acting like a lunatic, like a crazy person,” Penny said.

When a detective asked Penny why he decided to get involved, he said he’s typically “not a confrontational guy.”

“In the Marine Corps, I felt the need to step in,” he said. “There’s women and children on the train. I’m sure you’ll — there’s ladies there that will vouch for me.”

A detective asked if Penny felt anyone’s life was in danger.

“100%” he said.

Penny said he kept Neely in the chokehold after the train stopped because Neely was rolling around. He said he was waiting for police to arrive.

“Did you apply pressure?” one of the detectives asked him.

“No,” Penny replied. “I just wanted to keep him from getting to people.”

But he said he did hold tighter when Neely squirmed.

Penny said he couldn’t recall exactly how long he’d held onto Neely. He said he let go once two other men began to hold onto Neely's arms and confirmed that they had him. But cellphone footage recorded by another subway rider shows Penny continuing to restrain Neely after two other men stepped in to help him.

Penny said Neely was still moving when Neely rolled out from underneath him. The cellphone video shows Neely lying limp on the subway floor by the time Penny stands up.